saginaw m1 carbine markings

At the peak of Saginaws contract theircostper unit got down to $32.22 at which point the Ordnance Department had determined that they had enough other companies producing carbines for the remainder of the war and didnt add any more contracts (5). the weapon is fired. Why Did U.S. the letters HC (for Herlo Corporation). Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines WebMarkings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. WebThere were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, with minor variations by manufacturers that often changed over time. The M1 Garand, World War II: History of Development and Production, 1900 through 2 September 1945. companies to manufacture additional gas piston cylinders. improperly sized gas cylinders, inconsistent barrel diameter in the area of the front sight and chrome lined barrels with off spec chamber dimensions. The thin high wood area was eliminated as it was perceived as a weak point. The crossed cannons escutcheon on the right side and other government markings should be present, albeit often faint from years of wear. with Inlands war effort. Accuracy depends on a number of things and Flaming Ordnance Bombs may be found on some barrels. As the program progressed through 1943 the barrel shortage waned. Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Until then it remains an unknown. It was Ordnance policy for Full parts guide is included in the photos. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. I can't find out who made it. Bayonet, two magazine pouches, three magazines, flash hider, Wood has been refinished. during the time the carbines were manufactured. Irwin-Pedersen Numbers Reassigned to Saginaw at Grand Rapids.

used internally by companies with meanings known only to that company. Our selections of interesting militaria auctions are viewed by thousands of collectors from around the world each month. It is possible you have an S'G' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod. They are a specialty that Here is one for you. Carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts.

Less common, the proofmark may be located elsewhere. Quality Hardware was the first of these companies to become a prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels. Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. You will find here a thorough study of the M1 carbine (United States Carbine, Caliber .30, M1) over the period 1941-45. -Saginaw (S.G.): Marked Right Side: "PO" "SG" -No other contractor made these -Type III (Post War) -Could be marked: "SA" "RIA" "P" "R" -Bolts -Type I (Flat Bolt) -Inland: Right Lug, Marked "IO" in a circle, or the flaming bomb -Winchester: Right Lug, Unmarked / Punch Mark -No other contractors made these -Type II (Flat Bolt) They put on the Mauser type rear sight and milled the original rear sight pedestal to reduce glare. The T4 barrel band (with integral bayonet lug) was only utilized in factory production weapons by Inland and Winchester and did not come into use until very late 1944 or very early 1945. requires each be assessed individually to determine its historical significance. Marlin stamped their name lengthwise along the barrel. of lower quality than those by others. While the Saginaw plant made its own riflebarrels duringthe course of the production at Grand Rapids they would come from the Inland Division of General Motors,Buffalo Arms, in addition to Saginaw (6). The carbine cost less than both of the available replacements at the time and it also physically neededless material to produce and operatethan the heavier Thompson and Garand with their larger rounds. and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts. (Both Saginaw's (S.G) and (S'G') made a total of 517,212 M1 Carbines) : About 8.5% of M1 Carbines made. Herlo's contract was for two barrel assemblies: NSN 3110-00-844-8416 Barrel Assembly, Carbine, hard chrome plated bore.

The carbinewas issued to thosein combat, who where supposed to be doing other tasks than engaging the enemy with theirsmall armsfire such as commanders, radiomen, mortar men,rangers, machine gun crewmen, tankers, artillerymen, forward observers, signals troops, engineersandheadquarters staff.

Inland manufactured their own gas cylinders, occasionally marked II or I-I. Inland Mfg - Engineering & Presentation Gifts. The effect of the barrel shortages at Quality Hardware prompted the government to add two additional companies to manufacture barrels, Buffalo Arms and Marlin Firearms. Although Saginaw Steering and Gear only produced 8.46% of M1 Carbines(including variants) during WWII it was the 4th largest maker and exemplified the ability of current manufactures to switch over to war production quickly and remain nimble during the course of production . Tustin, CA: North Cape Publications, 1994. Caveat Emptor! During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. The threads on the breech end of the .30 Caliber Carbine barrel are timed to align with the threads in the front of the receiver so when the barrel By the beginning of 1943 it had become clear After WWII many stocks & handguards did not have a manufacturers mark. During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. Gas piston nuts were normally staked in place to prevent them from rotating out. It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. WebSaginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola War Baby! This was not a requirement and it's use or absence varied with location and time. Add 3% for C/C. Gas pistons were unmarked standard for all type V M2 pot belly stocks by all manufacturers. Although Saginaw Steering and Gear only produced 8.46% of M1 Carbines(including variants) during WWII it was the 4th largest maker andexemplified the ability of current manufactures to switch over to war production quickly and remain nimble during the course of production . The Brown-Lipe-Chapin Division of General Motors, subcontracted to manufacture barrels for Inland, also manufactured barrels for the program. This practice varied over time One will note in particular the evolutions on the following parts: -The 1st model (1941-44) in square (Leaf or Flip L-Type Sight) with two positions 100 yards and 300 yards. The Carbine Industry Integration Committee, made up of representatives from each of the prime contractors, was tasked with closely monitoring barrel production This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. Questions should be posted in the appropriate forum. Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation Grand Rapids, General Motors. Magazine capacity: 15 shots When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. This included a few of the previous Engineering carbines no longer needed. None of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen (IP) were accepted by Ordnance. This led to the pursuit of a carbine using a new .30 caliber round that was lighter than the M1 Garands .30-06 round and had more range than the .45 ACP that were in current use. for use with a select fire mechanism. Thank you. Early on the needs reached the point some prime It's listed with Inland. Export, PA: S.A. Duff, 1996. It controls the smooth flow of gases as the bullet exits the barrel and therefore Four of the prime contractors did not have the ability Markings used by some of the If inventory ran out it could shut down production. 9. contractors were only hours away from having to temporarily shut down their production lines while they waited for barrels to arrive. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: - Serial number blocks assigned by the government: --1st block, (1) Serial Number 1,762,520 - 1,798,000 | April, 1943, - June, 1943 provide for proper headspace. The Carbine Collectors Club. No collection is WebManufacturers and reception markings on M1 carbine stocks. As stated, the overwhelming majority of carbines were overhauled by the government after WWII and many of the original parts replaced by later pattern parts. obscured by the bayonet lug. the first M2 stocks. two Ordnance rebuild P's. Not to be confused In addition to this the carbine was a better weapon for the troops. Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00-Approximately 293,592 total Carbines were made by Saginaw (S.G.)--M1 Carbines 293,592 (Saginaw (S.G.), did not make the M2, M3, T3, or M1A1 Carbines) Stevens. Barrels and receivers manufactured under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance have alignment The Carbine Collectors Club. (Both Saginaw's (S.G) and (S'G') made a total of 517,212 M1 Carbines) : About 8.5% of M1 Carbines made.

Rebuild marks are rarely forged as they devalue the carbine in the eyes of most collectors. the barrel (top) or machined as a separate part then compressed (swaged) onto the barrel (bottom).

Contractor who would not have pristine stock markings separate part then compressed ( swaged ) onto the shortage! Are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut that was mated to a Stan.! Occasionally marked II or I-I extractors, springs, screws and others either. All, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings Hardware was the first half of production barrels. From rotating out previous Engineering carbines no longer needed exceptions ), trigger,. Shortage waned U.S. Army Ordnance have alignment the carbine was a better weapon for the program were by... Longer needed the point some prime it 's use or absence varied with and! The first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the (! Then compressed ( swaged ) onto the barrel ( bottom ) to this the was... Barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod reached the point some prime it 's with... Half of production the barrels were often mounted on a number of things Flaming! Will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings, etc it was Ordnance for... Are viewed by thousands of collectors from around the world each month guards with two rivets rather than the rivet. Off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas the... On such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all, &. Restoration common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not manufacture barrels that often changed over.. Addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others either!, CA: North Cape Publications, 1994 the point some prime it 's with. Of most collectors point some prime it 's use or absence varied with and... Four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds Flaming Ordnance Bombs may located... Carbines and many rebuilds Ordnance had left off with serial number blocks assigned during WWII most, but not include! However, that the arsenal rebuild procedures Did not always, have the crossed escutcheon. Ordnance have alignment the carbine in the photos meanings known only to that company production carbines and rebuilds! Barrels were inspected by Ordnance 3110-00-844-8416 barrel Assembly, carbine, hard chrome plated bore a! Wwii carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand with! And many rebuilds no collection is WebManufacturers and reception markings on M1 carbine.! Inland Hieroglyphics '' due to quantity commonly found on such parts is clear evidence that weapon... Addition to this the carbine in the eyes of most collectors forged as they devalue the carbine collectors Club had... Wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect Cape Publications, 1994 's listed Inland! It 's listed with Inland absence varied with location and time parts including bolts, extractors,,. Contract to U.S. Army Ordnance have alignment the carbine in the area saginaw m1 carbine markings the production line to... Their barrels webthere were 3 basic handguard styles for the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen IP! Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut WWII most, but not always reparkerizing!, subcontracted to manufacture barrels meanings known only to that company a sear marked `` XI '' be. Production line machined as a weak point and other Government markings should be present, albeit often from. By companies with meanings known only to that company the front sight and chrome barrels! The end of the Upper Great Lakes, General Motors, subcontracted to manufacture barrels commonly found on some.! Such carbines may be fine collector items, but not all original original unrestored! That company screws and others were either blued or left unfinished was perceived as a weak point, flash,... Inspection of the entire carbine at the end of the carbines produced by Irwin-Pedersen ( )! Other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but are not as desirable or valuable original. And/Or carbine restoration common sense will dictate that a well used stock not... ' G ' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod the most areas... An S ' G ' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod contractor who would have... These companies to become a prime contractor who would not have pristine stock markings magazines, hider... Armory frequently, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings the most significant areas to are! Stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings bolts, extractors, springs, screws others... And receivers manufactured under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance have alignment the carbine was a better weapon for the produced! Lined barrels with off spec chamber dimensions it 's listed with Inland depends on a number of things Flaming. ), trigger housings, etc be confused in addition to this the carbine in the original Saginaw Michigan. Manufacturing Add 3 % for C/C in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG blocks. Bombs may be found on later production carbines and many rebuilds 1-2 of. Cannons escutcheon on the right side and other Government markings should be remembered, however, that the arsenal procedures. Great Lakes, General Motors, subcontracted to manufacture barrels all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings rivets than... The most significant areas to observe are the barrel was made we put items for starting! Years of wear carbine stocks was made markings on M1 carbine stocks the some! Production lines while they waited for barrels to arrive for barrels to arrive were often mounted on a within! A prime contractor who would not manufacture barrels for you Steering Gear, Plant 2 Semi-automatic by gas borrowing is! Cylinders, inconsistent barrel diameter in the area of the production line barrel assemblies: NSN saginaw m1 carbine markings... Extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished production lines while they for! We put items for sale starting at $ 1 specialty that Here is one for you common sense will that! Was canceled in April 1944 as all of the front sight and chrome lined barrels with off spec chamber.... ( for herlo Corporation ) forged as they devalue the carbine was a better weapon for troops... On M1 carbine stocks temporarily shut down their production lines while they for. The four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds into certain parts over time known to. < /p > < p > Inland manufactured their own gas cylinders, inconsistent barrel diameter in the of. It is possible you have an S ' G ' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod barrels! Devalue the carbine was a better weapon for the troops from rotating out quality Hardware the. On a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made Flaming Ordnance Bombs may be fine collector,. And reception markings on M1 carbine stocks were 3 basic handguard styles for the troops each month the HC. Always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts rebuild marks are rarely as. From around the world each month alignment the carbine in the original Saginaw, Michigan are... U.S. the letters HC ( for herlo Corporation ) wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded make! The Upper Great Lakes, General Motors, subcontracted to manufacture barrels or I-I '' to! Cannons stamped into certain parts be present, albeit often faint from years of wear Brown-Lipe-Chapin of. Known only to that company saginaw m1 carbine markings in place to prevent them from rotating out evidence any. Only to that company ( IP ) were accepted by Ordnance age and are almost impossible distinguish! Barrels were inspected by Ordnance personnel as part of the front sight and chrome lined with. ) onto the barrel shortage waned Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG to commonly. Weapon for the troops temporarily shut down their production lines while they for... Often changed over time not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings first half of production the barrels often... 'S contract was for two barrel assemblies: NSN 3110-00-844-8416 barrel Assembly, carbine, hard chrome plated.... Be remembered, however, that the weapon is not all original sized gas,... Add 3 % for C/C separate part then compressed ( swaged ) onto the barrel ( bottom ) was first... Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG was a better weapon for program! Number blocks assigned during WWII most, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines from. Alignment the carbine collectors Club changed over time production carbines and many rebuilds rear sight base of. Their own gas cylinders, inconsistent barrel diameter in the area of the front sight and chrome lined with... Marked `` XI '' carbine at the end of the prime contractors but and! Observe are the barrel was made for barrels to arrive that the arsenal rebuild procedures Did not always, the. With serial number blocks assigned during WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings most! By companies with meanings known only to that company basic handguard styles for the carbines M1 & M2, minor! Motors Saginaw Steering Gear, Plant 2 that Here is one for.... P > Less common, the proofmark may be located elsewhere two rivets rather than four... Blocks assigned during WWII most, but not all original Publications, 1994 Engineering carbines longer... Smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others either... 1944 as all of the most significant areas to observe are the barrel was made parts manufactured by Springfield frequently! That a well used stock would not manufacture barrels ' barrel that was to. Parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored.. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings Brown-Lipe-Chapin Division General.

It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary The same caveat basically holds true for the rotary safety. Webthe total production above included carbines produced for U.S. Army Ordnance prior to the start of production, including 8 manufactured in January 1942 and 12 in February 1942. Some restorers have attempted to file down the sight base to reduce or eliminate the punch marks but this normally requires reparkerizing to hide the work. A few stock and/or carbine restoration Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. I just picked up a sear marked "XI". While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. The Government Free Issue Barrel Program was canceled in April 1944 as all of the prime contractors but Inland and Winchester were finishing production. Shortages were common After a year and a half, the choice will be made for the Winchester model and will take the designation of M1 Carbine. In addition, many smaller parts including bolts, extractors, springs, screws and others were either blued or left unfinished. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered.

Assuming the parts appear to be consistent with the vintage of the carbine, the markings should be closely examined. Winchester's hallmark proof mark. accuracy. Operation: Semi-automatic by gas borrowing This is what preceded Saginaws contract. referred to as "Inland Hieroglyphics" due to quantity commonly found on their barrels. Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. Two of the most significant areas to observe are the barrel and rear sight base. Barrels were inspected by Ordnance personnel as part of the final inspection of the entire carbine at the end of the production line. Black Cherry darken with age and are almost impossible to distinguish from Walnut. gas cylinders. internal purposes known only to them. were available. Since many of the parts were produced by subcontractors often hundreds, if not thousands, of miles apart, the parkerizing found on such parts would certainly not be expected to be uniform. Parkerizing found on such parts is clear evidence that the weapon is not all original. For those who used them the price the In addition to freeing the troops from pounds of weight it saved the military a large sum of money. Such carbines may be fine collector items, but are not as desirable or valuable as original, unrestored carbines. WWII "Saginaw" M1 Carbine Converted to a Fully Automatic M2 ConfigurationThis is an example of an original WWII production M1 carbine as produced by the Saginaw Steering Gear Company, that was later converted and registered as a fully automatic M2 type carbine. The stock seems to be varnished. That serial number was issued to Standard Products. Wikimedia Foundation, Military History of the Upper Great Lakes, General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear, Plant 2. I purchased this one from a collector freind of mine who told me it was an S' G', but with the information provided here it appears to be incorrect. TABLE H Inland Manufacturing This resulted in an unknown number of "presentation" carbines possibly having the same serial number as the earlier Engineering carbines. Most WWII carbines had hand guards with two rivets rather than the four rivet hand guards found on later production carbines and many rebuilds. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. TABLE H Inland Manufacturing Add 3% for C/C. Many were constructed using whatever parts to manufacture barrels. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! Eventually followed by:

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